HSNA Blog

Haydn & Beethoven: on the occasion of Beethoven's 250th birthday (16 Dec 2020)

[Vienna, 23 Nov. 1793]  

Haydn’s letter to Maximilian Franz, the Elector of Cologne, Bonn, Germany 

“Serene Electoral Highness!  

“I humbly take the liberty of sending Your Serene Electoral Highness some [five] musical works, viz., a Quintet, an eight-part Parthie, an oboe Concerto, Variations for the fortepiano, and a Fugue, compositions of my dear pupil Beethoven, with whose care I have been graciously entrusted.  I flatter myself that these pieces, which I may recommend as evidence of his assiduity over and above his actual studies, may be graciously accepted by Your Serene Electoral Highness.   Connoisseurs and non-connoisseurs must candidly admit, from these present pieces, that Beethoven will in time fill the position of one of Europe’s greatest composers, and I shall be proud to be able to speak of myself as his teacher;  I only wish that he might remain with me a little while longer. . . .

“As for the extravagance [in the use of a monetary gift from the Elector] which one fears will tempt any young man who goes into the great world, I think I can answer for that to Your Serene Electoral Highness:  for a hundred circumstances have confirmed me in my opinion that he is capable of sacrificing everything quite unconstrainedly for his art.  In view of so many tempting occasions, this is most remarkable, and gives every security to Your Serene Electoral Highness – in view of the gracious kindness that we expect – that Your Highness will not be wasting any of your grace on usurers as far as Beethoven is concerned.  In the hope that Your Serene Electoral Highness will continue his further patronage of my dear pupil by graciously acceding to this my request [for 500 fl. to support Beethoven], I am, with profound respect, 

Your serene Electoral Highness’ most humble and obedient 

Joseph Haydn 

Capell Meister von Fürst Nicolas Esterházy”  [sic]    

Vienna, 23rd November 1793.   

[As translated in H. C. Robbins Landon, Haydn: Chronicle and Works, vol. III:  Haydn in England 1791-1795, (Indiana University Press, 1976), 222-23.  This is letter no. 202 in Joseph Haydn: Gesammelte Briefe und Aufzeichnungen, ed. Dénes Bartha (Bärenreiter, 1965), 297-98.  Another English translation appears in Thayer/Forbes, 144-45.]

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Unfortunately, Elector Maximilian’s response to the above letter was rather rude and frigid, yet musically savvy because, in the music portfolio that accompanied Haydn’s letter, Beethoven had included (with the exception of the fugue) just earlier works that he had composed before leaving Bonn for Vienna in 1792.   Nonetheless Haydn’s words can still strike us as incredibly prescient about Beethoven’s future in music.  

Some Chronology Pertaining to Haydn and Beethoven

December 1790:   Haydn and Johann Peter Salomon passed through Bonn on way to London.   (Thayer/Forbes, 100-101; also Dies)  

July 1792:  On his return from England, Haydn stopped in Bonn to arrange for Beethoven’s studies with him in Vienna.  Beethoven showed him a cantata he had composed and “which was noticed especially by Haydn and which made him urge Beethoven to continue his studies.”  Beethoven returned to Vienna in November 1792.  (Thayer/Forbes, 105-06, 142)   

“Towards the end of July [1793?], Abbé Gelinek [in Vienna] informed me that he had made the acquaintance of a young man [Beethoven] who displayed extraordinary virtuosity on the pianoforte, such, indeed, as he had not observed since Mozart. . . .  [Since Haydn was too busy with his own composing to really teach him,] I was now eagerly desirous to become the helper of the zealous student.” (Johann Schenk’s autobiography, as cited in Thayer/Forbes, 140-42)   

29 Oct. 1792:  Count Waldstein’s inscription in Beethoven’s autograph album:  “The Genius of Mozart is mourning and weeping over the death of her pupil. . . With the help of assiduous labor you shall receive Mozart’s spirit from Haydn’s hands.”  (Thayer/Forbes, 115) 

ca. 10 Nov. 1792:   Beethoven begins his studies with Haydn in Vienna. 

19 January 1794:  Haydn departs Vienna for his second trip to London, and J. G. Albrechtsberger became Beethoven’s teacher. (Thayer/Forbes, 143)      

1794-95: Beethoven composes his op. 1 piano trios, whose publication by Artaria was announced in May 1795.   At Prince Lichnowsky concert after Haydn’s return from England in August 1795, Haydn hears them and tells Beethoven not to publish the C minor one (per F. Ries, Notizen, 84; Thayer/Forbes, 164, 179).  Haydn said “he had not believed that this Trio would be so quickly and easily understood and so favorably received by the public.”   

Sept.-Oct. 1795:  At a Prince Lichnowsky Friday-morning concert, Haydn hears Beethoven’s new sonatas (pub’d. by Artaria in 1796 as op. 2) that will be dedicated to him. (Thayer/Forbes, 175-76, 202).    

22 Nov. 1795:   Haydn attends Redoutensaal masked ball when Beethoven makes his debut as orchestral composer in Vienna.   

18 Dec. 1795:  Beethoven premieres his Piano Concerto in Bb (?) op. 19 in Redoutensaal “grand musical concert” given by Haydn, which also included the Vienna premiere of 3 London symphonies (incl. no. 100).  (Thayer/Forbes, 177-78)   

8 Jan. 1795:  Beethoven (as accompanist on piano) and Haydn participate in Redoutensaal benefit concert for Signora Maria Bolla, a singer.  

27 Oct. 1798:  Michael Haydn and (probably) Joseph Haydn present at Beethoven’s performance of his Piano Concerto in C op. 15 (1795), Theater auf der Wieden.   

5 April 1799:  Concert (“grand musical soirée) at Count Fries’s palace, Vienna, where Haydn conducts his Sym. 102 and Beethoven has his Quintet op. 16 (1796) performed (cf. Landon, Chronicle & Works, IV: 461-62).   

2 April 1800:  Beethoven’s first benefit concert in Vienna, at the Burg-Theater – premiere of his Sym. no. 1 in C.  The big concert also included a Mozart symphony, an aria and duet from Haydn’s The Creation, as well as Beethoven’s Piano Concerto (in C?) and Septet, op. 20 (Thayer/Forbes, 254-56). Beethoven also improvised at the pianoforte.    

28 Mar. 1801:  Haydn hears Beethoven’s ballet music Creatures of Prometheus at Vienna’s Burgtheater.   

27 Mar. 1808:  Haydn’s last public appearance at special performance of his The Creation conducted by Salieri at the Old University, Vienna.   Beethoven was present; cf. watercolor by Balthasar Wigand on commemorative casket (destroyed at or stolen from Museum der Stadt Wien in 1945) created for Haydn by order of Princess Maria Josepha Esterházy.  [László Somfai iconography, pp. 202-03, 216; Landon, Haydn: A Documentary Study (New York: Rizzoli, 1981), 168; cf. Thayer/Forbes, 430]    

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Interesting to note is that in November 1806 Beethoven took on the arrangement of folksongs for George Thomson (Edinburgh) after the elderly Haydn had become too weak to finish his own commissioned arrangements for Thomson.   One assumes that Haydn and Beethoven discussed the Scottish publisher’s commissions, especially since Beethoven’s letter of 1 Nov. 1806 to Thomson notes that “it is well known to me that Mr. Haydn was paid one pound sterling for each song.”  (cf. Thayer/Forbes, 403-06)   


HAPPY 250th BIRTHDAY, Ludwig !!

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Above materials assembled by Bruce C. MacIntyre, Professor Emeritus, Conservatory of Music, Brooklyn College (CUNY).    16 December 2020.

Alex Ludwig